Prime Minister, you heard the statement of President Vučić, who is probably more pessimistic than you, saying that the membership of the Western Balkan countries may take 5 or more years and Ukraine will join earlier. Was this an emotional statement or a political stance of President Vucic and how do you see this?
Prime Minister Edi Rama: That the president of Serbia and Serbia are more pessimistic than us, this is a normal thing. We are not Serbia, we are the Europe of the Balkans and we are Albania, which by the right of God and the right of the Albanian people, wants to sit at the table of the European Union, and in the meantime we are working for this on a daily basis and with the vision that Albania of 2030 will be ready to sit at the table of the united European family.
Mr. Prime Minister, besides being an optimist in all these summits of the Western Balkans, you seem to be the most polemical when it comes to the financial support that the European Union gives to the region, you are the one who demands the most. From the Growth Plan, since we are talking about money, what does Albania benefit from, apart from support for reforms, are there concrete projects that will be financed?
Prime Minister Edi Rama: First of all, it is true that I am an optimist. I was not so optimistic before, you have seen, but I am more and more optimistic for the reason that many things have changed in the internal dynamics of the European Union and in the approach of the European Union to what until yesterday was called enlargement, meanwhile today the reunification of Europe has clearly taken place due to the strong alarm bell that rang with the Russian aggression in Ukraine.
On the other hand, I have always been a polemicist even before I was given the opportunity to do so with the European Union, and we have been at the root of this change because we have been repeatedly reciprocal with all those who came to visit us, either leaders of the European Union, or even representatives of the European Union directly, in a series of expositions of a study we did on the real benefits of being in the European Union and of the real benefits of our countries.
So my idea and insistence has been, while we do our homework and we must do it individually, all of us to have all the structures, mechanisms, institutions and performance level to deserve the membership, we need more support, and on the other hand, the paths of real integration in the European Union should be opened, without the need to become members, which means to open paths to the European common market, to open paths to all those parts of the coexistent structure of the European Union, where our countries can be included without being members.
I am giving a concrete example, of course there is a significant financial package, about 6 billion euros, but beyond that which will be divided between countries based on the reforms, beyond that I am giving you a very simple example from these other mechanisms.
Just because we are almost ready and I believe that we will present to the table of the European Union with all the necessary documents the request to enter the so-called SEPA system, all money transfers of Albanians from the European Union to Albania, which today are much more expensive than those between the EU countries themselves, they will be the same as within the EU, which means only from this integration, Albanians living as EU citizens in EU countries, when they move their money to Albania, will save tens of millions of euros per year. Just from this. So tens of millions of euros will remain in their pockets that banks receive today as an extra commission because this money goes outside the EU.
– Mister Rama, as you said, this is based on merit. That is, the fund will be distributed only on the basis of merit and there will be a return at the moment when it will be seen that the reforms will not proceed as foreseen, but meanwhile you yourself, when you presented the reform that will be done in the Albanian state administration, stated that corruption continues to be a gangrene. Do you think that this can become an obstacle for Albania?
Prime Minister Edi Rama: Firstly, today, we have practically completely agreed on the individual documents of each country for all the reforms related to the new Growth Plan. They are all agreed and from today the implementation begins and from today the possibility of paying the money also begins.
Secondly, I did not say gangrene, I said disturbing phenomenon. It has been a gangrene previously, now it is a disturbing phenomenon and these reforms that I presented are reforms, which are also required for membership in the European Union, because I have heard a lot of rumors about this. Interpretations of the type, “why now after 11 years did Edi Rama remember to reform the administration”, while this is a very short-sighted way of looking at it, because exactly because in these 11 years, we have done all that we have done, we have also opened the negotiations. Or when it comes to justice, related to the SPAK, but in fact if you read the guide to the rule of law approved and agreed with the EU and if you look at the EU report from the diagnosis of the screening process, more than 50 % of the duties for Albania are duties related to the justice system.
So, all these together will make it possible for us to be a member of the European Union, while the new growth plan is specifically related to certain reforms and measures that have been agreed upon, and they will follow on the way if we will do them and we will do them on time. I am convinced that we will do them on time, there is no reason not to do them.
Meanwhile against this we will gain those parts of full integration according to those spaces that are open at the moment. So we will become a member of the European Union in those areas and on the other hand we will receive the funds, definitely.
-Exactly, one of the issues that you were accused of a lot after you presented this platform, this big reform, was that you would seize justice, you wanted to change SPAK.
Prime Minister Edi Rama: This is useless talk because, if something like this were to be imagined, it would have to go through amendments to the Constitution.
Secondly, how can we and how can I have such a goal when in fact it was me with the Socialist Party that gave life to SPAK and that today we give it unequivocal support and to this day I do not know to have ever opened our mouths to comment on SPAK’s activity even though, like any other activity of any other institution, it has its own problems.
This is a way of reducing to the circumference of the glass storm of the politics of the day something so big, so important, as the subject of a new wave of reformation, that it is not at all worth wasting time on.
– Have you received a signal from the opposition that will become part of this commission? Will they join these reforms? Is there any communication between stakeholders?
Prime Minister Edi Rama: I am not aware to tell the truth because the draft resolution has been filed in the Parliament and will continue to have its process and just as we have done with the justice reform, we will do our part in all cases. In this case a broader consensus is required in the Parliament hall, that is, votes are required, but also because at the end of the day, at least in words and based on programs, all Albanian political parties do not discuss at all that the destination is the European Union, the dispute is related to who can lead Albania to the European Union the fastest, we need to create a space, a forbidden zone for daily political fights that can continue normally , for there to be spoken technically with the language of expertise and not with the depraved language of the politics of the day. I believe that this will also expose many things in terms of approach, if there is still a need to expose things in terms of political parties in Albania.
– Prime Minister, the echo of your meeting with the Albanians in Athens has also reached Belgrade. And two days ago, the Minister of Defense, Vulin declared that the great Albania can be defeated by the Serbian vote, but also with the help of Greece. What taste did this statement leave you with at a time when even today you mentioned that the countries of the Western Balkans should not block each other and should give up such rhetoric?
Prime Minister Edi Rama: A wise man said that after 40, every person is responsible for the face he has, and if you look at the face of the person you are referring to, I think that his statement does not deserve a comment.
– Mr. Prime Minister, how did you feel, what emotions did you have from that meeting in Athens, apart from the ones you conveyed with the speech you delivered.
Prime Minister Edi Rama: The only thing I regret is the whole absurd attempt to project it in the eyes of those who want to believe all kinds of nonsense, but not the truth, for political reasons, that the red and black dance I would say, in the heart of Athens, was a meeting made by bus of the administration and I am sorry because it insults, hurts the dignity, hurts the heart of all those who had come there and who were not only Albanian people who could have a relationship of political sympathy with the force that governs, but also people who have never even voted for us, even who were known as people who belonged to other political parties and they all came there as Albanians, as it was quite natural and quite understandable that they came for all the reasons that are known and related to the history of the Albanians of Greece.
In this respect, it is the only thing that I regret, while for all other things, that meeting will forever remain in my memory as an extraordinary moment of Albanianness, and I believe that it is also a psychological turning point in many aspects, not only in the relationship between the Albanians of Greece and Greece, and in the relationship between Albania and Greece, but also in the relationship between the Albanian world and Europe.
– And to solve all that problem that they had, including the documentation or registration of children that the Greek state still does not facilitate, is any meeting with the Prime Minister of Greece foreseen in your agenda?
Prime Minister Edi Rama: Look, we must be realistic that the history of the Albanians of Greece is a very serious story, one that is very difficult to frame in the picture of life and civic coexistence in the European Union of those years, but on the other hand, we must be just as realistic that the Albanians of Greece have made extraordinary progress and there are definitely problems with residence permits, but it is no problem for all Albanians. A significant part of them vote in Greece, so they are not people who have only one victory triumph of the nature of economic independence and a much better economy than what they had when they started, which was zero, but also in the advancement of their rights.
On the other hand, I am convinced that we will soon see new positive developments in the direction of permanent residence, i.e. of the permanent residence permit for those who do not yet have it, and in the direction of obtaining citizenship with natural right, also in other directions. I am very confident that the remaining issues between us will also be on the table, not to be left again for 84, or for 77 years or for I don’t know, tens of years, but to be resolved and removed forever from the table.
– Prime Minister, since we are talking about immigration, a few months ago you held a meeting in Rome with Prime Minister Meloni and Prime Minister Rishi Sunak. Last week, 10 Downing Street announced that you had a phone call with Prime Minister Rishi Sunak. Is there a desire from Great Britain to repeat the successful agreement that Albania made with Italy in favor of solving the immigration problem they have in Great Britain?
Prime Minister Edi Rama: In relation to Albania?
– Yes, in relation to Albania.
Prime Minister Edi Rama: There was an expression of desire, not only on the part of Great Britain, but also on the part of some other countries, not after but also before our agreement with Italy took place, but my answer was a clear “No” and it remains a clear “No”. Italy is a different story and it is a different reality in the picture of our friendly relations and our international relations, and I have explained the reasons why.
– Prime Minister, today we are in Montenegro and we are at the beginning of the summer season. We have to pay 15 euro of insurance to travel in the territory of Montenegro. Such a thing is not done by Montenegrin citizens. It has been promised that it will be talked about, it will be invested in this matter, but still nothing. We are also talking in the context of the Open Balkans.
Prime Minister Edi Rama: Before we did this interview and then returned to Albania, I had a meeting with the Prime Minister of Montenegro and a team that came all the way from Tirana for this meeting on several topics, on the topic of the bridge that connects the two sides of Buna and which is now in the phase of introduction in the implementation process. The joint operational group will be established and the tender will be announced internationally, for the construction of the bridge, and we are confident that within the year we will see the construction site of the connecting bridge of Buna.
Secondly, we talked about the lake because on the Montenegrin side, the part up to Zogaj is finished, on the Albanian side another part is required. The entire western road of the lake will be connected and we have also talked about a joint navigation operation on the lake. We also talked about a joint tourism development project on both sides of Buna for which we will engage the respective investment agencies, together with the respective urban planning agencies to write the terms of reference for a competition international joint, where we will call, as we do in Albania, the greatest architects and urban planners to participate in the competition and I have also spoken about the insurance topic, which continues to not find a solution, but I am confident that we will find a solution because the prime minister has promised me.